Libertarian Librarian

It's so nice to see that the rotten apple doesn't fall far from the diseased tree in the McGee family.

I remember his father as Alderman of the Tenth Ward. He showed up at a news conference with a slingshot in a holster because he couldn't get a permit for a handgun. He either re-organized, or threatened to re-organize, the Black Panther Party in Milwaukee. There was also that demand for something like one million dollars for the Tenth Ward or McGee threatened that he would start a race war in the city. I think I even remember him burning tires in an alley near his home because they were the "X"s (i.e. Malcolm X) and the evil, oppressive, white establishment was the "O"s.

If Moss and T.O. are exhibits in a case against Intelligent Design, would McGee Sr. and Jr. be evidence in a case for de-evolution?
 

Yes, they would.

From reports I've heard-- and it is merely heresay, so take it with a grain of salf-- McGee the elder is not disagreeing with callers to his radio program that are advocating using violence against the police. Not encouraging them, per se, but not denouncing them, either.

Class acts, those McGees.
 

OK I don't care who Mcgee is or how much of a jerk he is... that police report is down right frightening. I can understand the employees concern but I can also understand the anger I would feel having police check out my car take my license and run my name for doing absolutely nothing... they should have just asked him to leave..no reason to run someones info if they have done NOTHING. SO I can also understand his anger and support his right to yell his displeasure with people calling the cops on him. At the point he gets back into his car and leaves...what in the HELL are the police doing pulling the guy over and when he protests to being pulled over as any human on the planet would they arrest him?!?!?!?!?!?! WTF???? for what... cause they don't like him. Actions like this give credece to jerks like McGee and drive a wedge between all citizens and police. The police proactively antagonized the situation and pulled a guy over and arrested him because he was in a parking lot, yell something at someone (that they couldn't here) and then left.... if this is a crime then I wonder when the canings for J-walking are being instituted... McGee being a hateful predjudice jerk is NOT part of this story... this is a legit abuse of power, again... with recent police history when it happens to a black man in a white community then it is also legit to blame it on racism... I am stunned you are supporting the police on this one Nick...stunned the police are not allowed to arrest you 'cause they don't like you..which is exactly what happened.
 

The police officers followed standard procedure. They were called to a place of business because employees were concerned about an occupied vehicle that was parked in their parking lot after business hours. The police pulled into the lot, turned on their flashing lights, approached the vehicle, talked to the driver, ran the license, and told the driver he was free to go. The police are justified in checking out the driver or occupants of the vehicle because there was a possible violation of Section 7.56.020 of the Wauwatosa City Code (Loitering or prowling prohibited generally).

McGee was the one who proactively antagonized the situation when he, after being told that he was free to go, got out of his vehicle to scream at the employees inside of the video store. That could easily be viewed as a violation of Section 7.46.010 of the Wauwatosa City Code (Prohibition of noises disturbing the public peace) and of Section 7.48.001 of the Wauwatosa City Code (Disorderly conduct).

Even after the police pulled him over after that outburst, however, he most likely would have been free to go again if he had calmed down and not become hostile with the police officers. His continued disorderly conduct is what led the police to place him under arrest.

Further, when he resisted arrest, McGee violated either Section 946.41 or Section 946.415 of the Wisconsin Statutes regarding interference with law enforcement. That would also fall under Section 7.02.010 of the Wauwatosa City Code (Statutes adopted).

Mr. McGee could have easily walked away from this incident at least once, but he continued to escalate his poor behavior to the point of arrest. That's not racism on the part of the video store employees or the police; that is stupidity and arrogance on the part of McGee.

The reasons that the police follow the standard procedure which was followed in this case is so that they will have a record of the incident in case it is needed for future reference, to check the background of an individual in an attempt to verify the person's explanation of the situation, and to check for outstanding warrants which may exist. These procedures are an effort to protect the officers and the community.

What if a crime occurred and the police needed to check the incident reports for people who were in the area within the same time-frame? The incident reports can often provide a list of witnesses who may have seen something that can help the investigation. The reports can also provide the names of possible suspects who were in the area at the time.

What if the person in that vehicle was a wanted criminal? If the officer had simply taken him at his word, not followed procedure, and let him go, then the police would have been crucified in the press if that criminal turned around and committed a crime afterwards. One of the first questions at the press conference would go something like, "You mean to say, Chief, that one of your officers had stopped to check on John Q. Criminal because he was in a vehicle in a business parking lot after hours, but the officer didn't even complete a simple background check on his ID? Your department took John Q. Criminal at his word and let him loose to prey on this community?"

The police didn't abuse their power in this case; they went by the book on this one.
 

Rod,

Mojo's right. You're wrong. I am rarely that cut and dried about these things, but on this one there is no doubt in my mind that McGee is the one to blame for his arrest, not the police. McGee seems to believe that because he is an alderman for the city of Milwaukee, he has privileges others don't. He also seems to believe that any action taken against him by the police must be because he is black.

He is completely wrong on both points.

And I haven't forgotten about John Stewart. He's an interesting candidate and I'm leaning toward going with him.
 

couple -o-points about the mcgee arrest...
1. it makes no difference who it is ... every argument you have used has mentioned personal opinions about mcgee and although I agree with them it shouldn't matter.
2. no no no... dropping someone off in a parking lot at !10pm is NOT a violation of the loitering statute ..no no no it is not.. he was not cited for it and the link provided by the one time liberal mojo said the police had a right to ask the person to identify himself NOT run his license with NO REASON.
3. it is NOT a violation of disturbing the peace to yell something (unknown to the police what that is) and then leave. the link clearly stated that a disturbance had to result .. if we allow the police to arrest people or even pull them over because they think someone said something to someone who wasn't even listening and leave without incident of any kind then we give them the freedom to take our freedom at their whim... neither party had ANY reaction to what was said other than to go their separate way!!!!! WTF????? what if it was you dropping off you wife at her car you guys stopped to talk a few minutes... the police come and harass you for it, they don't just ask you what your doing and ask you to leave..no they take you license and run it like you committed a crime.... then they leave... then you see me in the parking lot.. you yell "hey you ugly fuck.. you suck and so does your FF team" the police can't hear you but they 'see you say something' ...man you must be a bad person in need of an arrest... so as you pull out of the lot with no incident from me as I merely flip you the "your number one" sign the fine men in blue pull you over... you say WTF?!?!?!?! first you harass me and my wife and now you pull me over??? (thats what I would say) they respond be slapping the cuffs on...

They arrested a man because they SAW him say something and leave without incident!!!!!! how can anyone defend this?? beyond me.. just beyond me... fact is if it was you and you were flippant with the police they still wouldn't have arrested you.. he was arrested because he was mike mcgee or because the police were bored and felt like violated some that night.
 

In response:

dropping someone off in a parking lot at !10pm is NOT a violation of the loitering statute

You are absolutely correct. What I said, however, is that it was a possible violation of the Wauwatosta City Code. The section of the code I cited states:

"A person commits a violation if he loiters or prowls in a place, at a time, or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals under circumstances that warrant alarm for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity."

McGee was parked in a private business' parking lot [the place], after business hours [the time], and sitting in his vehicle with another person for an extended period of time [the manner not usual]. This caused concern on the part of the video store employees [circumstances that warrant alarm for ... safety], who called the police.

That activity on the part of McGee establishes a possible violation of the City Code regarding loitering. The person in possible violation of that section of the City Code cannot be arrested for loitering or prowling, however, unless the officer first allows the individual an opportunity to identify and explain himself.

[T]he police had a right to ask the person to identify himself NOT run his license with NO REASON.

Reading Section 7.56.020 of the Wauwatosa City Code shows that the reason for engaging the individuals in the vehicle was a text-book case of possible loitering, so there was a reason to ask for identification. Also, it is standard procedure to run the license and/or plates during the inquiry.

Keep in mind that, while approaching the vehicle, the police need to be concerned that the intent of the individuals inside may be criminal (robbery, staking out the business for a future criminal act, waiting to assault an employee with whom one of the individuals may have a disagreement with, looking for an opportunity to mug an employee, etc.). The police don't know what they are about to encounter, so the approach is one of trepidation and the view is one of suspicion.

Also, once the police realize that the individual is an alderman, they will most likely follow the book to the letter to avoid any implication of special treatment. It is better, both for P.R. and job security, to be chastised for doing your job to the letter rather than not doing so and leaving open the possibility that special treatment was afforded to a public official.

he was not cited for [loitering]

Correct. The police approached, had McGee identify and explain himself, ran through standard procedure, informed him that businesses are often concerned when an unknown, occupied vehicle is parked in their lot after hours, and told him he was free to go. At that point, if McGee had just driven off, we wouldn't be discussing this.

the one time liberal mojo

I'm not being liberal or conservative. I'm stating the facts as presented in the police report and citing law to back-up my contention that the police acted properly and within their mandate.

Besides, wouldn't you expect me to back-up the police on this one? Your statement infers that I am only being a liberal this one time, and that would seem to make me a conservative the remainder of the time. I often hear the invective that conservatives are fascists and trample on civil rights. As such, wouldn't you expect me (a conservative) to uphold the actions of the officers who were bored and felt like violated some that night [sic]?

it is NOT a violation of disturbing the peace to yell something (unknown to the police what that is) and then leave.

According to the police report:

"I [Officer Donovan] drove across the lot, and was preparing to exit on to N. 61st Street. At that point, I heard McGee screaming 'hey, [explicative deleted] you all for calling the police on me.' It appeared McGee had exited his vehicle to shout at Blockbuster employees who were standing near the front window of the store. A female subject walking a dog past the business appeared startled by McGee's screaming, however, she had left the area before I could obtain her name."

The section City Code regarding disturbing the peace states that:

"No person shall make or assist in making any noise or other vibration tending to unreasonably disturb the peace and quiet, comfort or repose of persons in the vicinity thereof unless the making and continuing of the same cannot be prevented and is necessary for the protection or preservation of property or of the health, safety, life or limb of some person, or if the activity is otherwise authorized bylaw."

The section of the City Code regarding disorderly conduct states that:

"Whoever does any of the following shall be subject to the penalties provided in Section 7.48.160: in a public or private place, engages in violent, abusive, indecent, profane, boisterous, unreasonably loud, or other disorderly conduct under circumstances in which such conduct tends to cause or provoke a disturbance."

McGee did make noise that appeared to disturb the comfort of a passer-by, which could be a violation of disturbing the peace. McGee wasn't charged with disturbing the peace; he was charged with disorderly conduct.

There is an easily arguable violation of disorderly conduct. The officer heard McGee screaming an abusive, indecent, and/or profane statement to the employees inside the video store; doing so in a manner that many would reasonably see as conduct which could tend to cause or provoke a disturbance.

Again, if the police let McGee just take off after screaming in a profane manner at the employees who had originally called the police, you have a possible impression of special treatment afforded to an alderman. The police need to at least talk to him about his outburst to avoid the perception of impropriety. If McGee would have remained cooperative and had not become agitated, he most likely would have walked away without charge after his vehicle was stopped.

He did not remain cooperative, however. Instead he became agitated, argumentative, and all but dared the police to arrest him (in the police report it says that, right before he was arrested, McGee asked the officer, "What are you going to do about it, arrest me?").

McGee's belligerent antics got him arrested for disorderly conduct, and his lack of common sense got him charged with resisting an officer. Spin it any way you would like, but the police did their job to the letter and well within their mandate.
 

What Mojo said. And a few other things:

McGee, as he likes to point out, is an alderman of the city of Milwaukee. In other words, a PUBLIC official. I expect public officials to act with a bit more decorum than a drunken Chicago White Sox fan.

And no, after having the police come over and tell me that the people in the business I was parked at were nervous/afraid because I was there for such a long time after hours, I would NOT have yelled at them. I would NOT have been mad at the police for doing their job. I WOULD have felt bad for worrying the people in Blockbuster needlessly, and rather than being mad at them, I would've felt chagrined.

But. Even if I had gotten mad and yelled at them, when the cops come to talk to me for the second time in less than 15 minutes, I most definitely wouldn't get belligerent with them. McGee was out of line yelling at the store, and he was WAY out of line getting up in the police officer's face after it was McGee who refused to let the incident rest.

You're right, it shouldn't, and didn't, matter who it was-- when you have not one, not two, but three separate chances to let things be and you just can't help but escalate a situation you deserve what you get. End of story, so sorry.

I have no doubt that DWB (Driving While Black) violations occur. In fact, I know several people to whom it has occurred. I wish this were not the case and I hope some day society can move past DWB violations. But this was not DWB. This was a guy being an asshole, getting belligerent with police, and, as Mojo noted, practically begging them to arrest him. So they did.

What is truly appalling about the case is not that McGee got arrested, but that he felt his behavior was acceptable because he is a) a city official or b) black, or c) both.